Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/Today
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Special notes
[edit]Some categories may be listed in Category:Categories for deletion but accidently not listed here.
Discussion for Today
[edit]- This page is transcluded from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024_November_13
November 13
[edit]NEW NOMINATIONS
[edit]Category:World Health Organization director-generals
[edit]- Nominator's rationale: Correct plural per the Director-General of the World Health Organization article and also Template:WHO Directors-General. StAnselm (talk) 17:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:ABS-CBN personalities
[edit]- Propose merging Category:ABS-CBN personalities to Category:ABS-CBN people
- Propose merging Category:GMA Network personalities to Category:GMA Network (company) people (nomination merged 13 Nov)
- Propose merging Category:TV5 (Philippine TV network) personalities to Category:TV5 Network people (added to nomination 13 Nov)
- Nominator's rationale: "Personalities" is redundant with people. There is no reason to have this category which implies to cover "actors and singers" when "people" apply just fine. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per nominator.Lost in Quebec (talk) 09:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Oppose, as Category:Filipino television personalities means presenters, whereas people includes other company roles.– Fayenatic London 12:12, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on FL's comment?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 02:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Probably the term "personalities" is too vague, but that would be a problem of the entire tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- For Philippine context, actors are often contracted to television networks. As you can see, the subcategories for Filipino television personalities includes musicians and actors. We have ABS-CBN personalities, the Kapamilyas and the GMA personalities, the Kapusos. Upon checking at least the American counterpart does mostly include presenters but curiously includes reality show contestants. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 04:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, charlotte 👸♥📱 18:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london: maybe you want to comment on the above. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am not a fan of "personalities", which seems to me vague and therefore not WP:DEFINING, but the Television personalities by nationality categories are well structured and populated. They include a sub-structure for American television hosts which was accepted as WP:ENGVAR for "presenters" (e.g. here). I have struck my first comment above because I was confused between "hosts" and personalities.
- However, more to the point, I have just found Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_February_7#Category:MSNBC_personalities which includes links to several more categories of American personalities by channel/network, all of which were deleted. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 5 had several further deletions of US personalities by network. Those decisions are a long time ago and consensus can change, but I suggest a relist adding the siblings for GMA and TV5, either for merger to "people" (if it's not WP:PERFCAT) or for deletion. – Fayenatic London 21:36, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: adding siblings.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic London 16:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete personalities. Categorising by network in this way is little more than WP:PERFCAT. Categorising on a national level should be sufficient. I definitely strongly oppose merge, as "people" is usually reserved for executives, otherwise you run into WP:OCASSOC territory. --woodensuperman 16:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Channel 4 presenters
[edit]- Propose merging Category:Channel 4 presenters to Category:British television presenters
- Nominator's rationale: It's just people who present or have once presented random Channel 4 programmes. We shouldn't be dividing by network, which amounts to nothing more than WP:PERFCAT. The national level is sufficient. --woodensuperman 08:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Most would not need merging. See https://petscan.wmcloud.org/?psid=29825441 for the few that are not in English/Scottish etc. Some e.g. Fred Sirieix are not British anyway. Shouldn't Category:BBC television presenters be added to this nomination? See also the 2007 precedents for deletion listed in the related nomination #Category:ABS-CBN personalities. – Fayenatic London 16:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- There are probably a lot of "by network" presenters, personalities, newsreaders, etc,. that should be considered for deletion per WP:PERFCAT. --woodensuperman 16:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Restaurants in Bristol
[edit]- Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Bristol to Category:Restaurants in England
- Nominator's rationale: Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 16:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Restaurants in Hampshire
[edit]- Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Hampshire to Category:Restaurants in England
- Nominator's rationale: Category containing one defunct restaurant in a pub. Unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 12:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- As it's a former restaurant, does it even belong in Category:Restaurants in England? --woodensuperman 13:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Already in Category:Defunct Michelin-starred restaurants in the United Kingdom which is a sub-sub-subcat of Category:Restaurants in the United Kingdom. Maybe Category:Defunct restaurants in England could be created? --woodensuperman 13:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've created Category:Defunct restaurants in England now. --woodensuperman 16:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete; I've also added the article to Category:Gastropubs in England. – Fayenatic London 15:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- As it's a former pub and a defunct restaurant, should it be there? --woodensuperman 16:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, categories generally include both current and former X, unless there is a subcat for former/defunct X. – Fayenatic London 16:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- So this edit would be incorrect, thus affecting #Category:Restaurants in Bristol above? --woodensuperman 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, categories generally include both current and former X, unless there is a subcat for former/defunct X. – Fayenatic London 16:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- As it's a former pub and a defunct restaurant, should it be there? --woodensuperman 16:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Happy with delete, was my preferred option but thought would be opposed here! AusLondonder (talk) 16:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Endangered species by reason they are threatened
[edit]- Propose renaming Category:Endangered species by reason they are threatened to Category:Species by reasons for endangerment
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by agriculture (added 13 November)
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by climate change
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by damming
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by deforestation
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by disease
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by deliberate extirpation efforts
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by fires
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by grazing
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by habitat loss
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by human consumption
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by invasive species
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by logging
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by mining
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by the pet trade
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by pollution
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by use as raw materials
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by roads
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by being bycatch
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by collisions with vehicles
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by specimen collection
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by sport fishing and hunting
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by warfare
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by destruction of specific ecosystems
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by tourism
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by urbanization
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by wetland drainage
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by wetland drainage
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by agricultural development
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by agricultural pollution
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by subsistence agriculture
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by oil palm plantations
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by slash-and-burn
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by deliberate fires
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by logging for charcoal
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by logging for firewood
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by mangrove destruction
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by habitat fragmentation
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by roadbuilding
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by river-damming
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by watercourse sedimentation
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by watercourses drying up
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by use as food
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by human consumption for medicinal or magical purposes
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by logging for timber
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by use in wearables
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by selective logging
- Propose deleting Category:Species endangered by roadkill
- Propose renaming Category:Endangered species by reason they are threatened to Category:Species by reasons for endangerment
- Nominator's rationale: This category has long been used for both extinction-threatened species and extinct species. Separating out extinct species is impractical for reasons detailed on the cat page, and would result in a lot of duplication. Extinct species aren't really threatened in the present tense and "endangered species" is also a counterintuitive way to describe them. Alternate name suggestions welcome. HLHJ (talk) 01:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Delete and also delete all corresponding subcategories similarly created by HLHJ. This category grouping appears to force one or more clear reasons why a species is endangered when it is usually a combination of numerous factors. For example,
climate changeglobal warming endangers a huge amount of species simply by existing and causing changes to the biosphere, but according to this categorization scheme, it only endangers a small portion of them. The amount of misinformation being given to the reader makes this tree of categories untenable, even if it was intended in good faith. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:23, 31 October 2024 (UTC)- Oppose deleting as incomplete. Most of our categories are incomplete. Donald Trump is in Category:Illeists, and Xenophon isn't. Xenophon made really extensive and notable use of illeism, and assuming the contrary, just because he's not in that category, is clearly wrong. The lack of categorization at "Xenophon" is not misinformation.
- The categories are not exclusive; multiple categories can be added, and anyone may cat any species endangered by climate change (according to reliable sources) but not categorized as such. Exhaustive categorization is impossible. New threats to a species can occur at any time, and minor threats may be unclear, and even major threats may be completely unknown to humans. The presence of a category says that we know X threatens this species; the absence does not say that we know X is no threat to this species. If you wanted that, you'd need a "Species endangered, but not by climate change" cat, or similar.
- Without wishing to trivialize climate change, it is unfortunately only one of the major causes of the biodiversity crisis. There are also many species which are under threat from other causes, such as Category:Species endangered by invasive species. Habitat loss to agriculture and expanding human population is also an issue, as are other forms of pollution. And some reasons really ought to be listed in an encyclopedia that makes knowledge widely available, because they are caused by ignorance, like Category:Species endangered by the pet trade. Which reasons are most important varies (for instance, climate change and trawling are major threats to corals, and agriculture is a major threat to grassland birds, reported to threaten about three times as many grassland bird species as climate change).[1][2]
- I don't know of any attempt to rate threats by the number of species they affect globally. It is quite possible that most endangered species are unknown to science (certain, if we include microorganisms). But it is very obvious that if we could wave a magic wand and make climate change never have happened, we'd still have a biodiversity crisis from all the other anthropocene messes. Researchers identifying threats to species often don't list climate change, and sometimes explicitly state that is doesn't seem to be a significant threat to an individual species. So many species will not be categorized as threatened by climate change if we accurately reflect the reliable sources.
- I think that systematically listing the threats facing species is a good idea, and so as I recall did the person at the IUCN I corresponded with when first creating these categories years ago (starting in 2015, though the overarching cat was apparently 2017). There are about 70 subcategories containing at least hundreds of pages. Such a list is necessarily incomplete, but incomplete information is still useful. HLHJ (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete with subcategories, Zxcvbnm makes an excellent point. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I noticed only one main idea was stated, one by zxcvbnm. I have relisted this to see if there are any additional comments that propose/support this idea as I only saw one other supporter.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 join in on the tea talk 13:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)- Would it be in order for me (or anyone) to notify some relevant forums of this discussion, as for instance Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants? I've made a bunch of assertions about conservation biology, and I think input from editors interested in this subject area would be valuable. HLHJ (talk) 22:16, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per Zxcvbnm. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:08, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Tagging and adding subcats to nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic London 12:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Fighter aircraft in production
[edit]- Nominator's rationale: This is a newly-created category, and while the idea is credible the execution is a not defining characteristic of the aircraft categorised within. In addition, if I recall we discourage categorising as "currently X". The Bushranger One ping only 06:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can maintain it. I have no problem if you delete it either.Nafis Fuad Ayon (talk) 06:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete It's an inherently transitory, thus unencyclopedic, category. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Service companies of Haiti
[edit]- Propose merging Category:Service companies of Haiti to Category:Companies of Haiti by industry
- Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)*
- Merge per nominator.Lost in Quebec (talk) 11:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:Computer companies of Haiti
[edit]- Propose merging Category:Computer companies of Haiti to Category:Technology companies of Haiti
- Nominator's rationale: Only has 1 entry. LibStar (talk) 04:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Probably the target can be upmerged too, to Category:Companies of Haiti. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Category:19th-century Seattle politicians
[edit]- Nominator's rationale: Isolated category. Dual merge. SMasonGarrison 03:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Single merge to Category:19th-century Washington (state) politicians because both articles are already in Category:Mayors of Seattle. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)